Lead Generation Using LinkedIn
Would you like more speaking inquiries and higher value speaking clients? Do you have a process for generating leads using LinkedIn and cold emails? My guest today is Will Wang, a sales funnel expert and the founder of Growth Labz. Over the past few years, Will has helped his clients build, launch and scale outbound sales campaigns.
In our conversation, we talk about cold email outreach campaigns for speakers, B2B lead generation using LinkedIn, and A/B testing of sales funnels. Enjoy the episode.
In this episode:
- Email outreach campaigns for speakers.
- B2B lead generation using LinkedIn
- A/B testing of sales funnels
Artificial Intelligence Generated Transcript
Below is a machine-generated transcript and therefore the transcript may contain errors.
Will Wang
James, thanks so much for having me on things that things are quite good here in Sydney, Australia. You know, we’re, we’re very lucky part of the world. Business is going good live kind of going back to normal. So I’m very grateful to, you know, to first of all, be be from Australia. And second of all, very grateful to be on the podcast with you as well. So thanks for having me on.
James Taylor
That’s fantastic. Now, I first heard about you through our mutual friend, James Schramko. I heard way back, I think you did a review. I know you’ve been on his podcast a couple of times as well. And I was just so impressed by every time you are a guest on that show, you’re always adding value and giving value. And I thought for a lot of our audience here that the speakers you podcast, I, when I was thinking about doing bring in new types of guests, I thought I’d love to have well on because you you just give so much value to the audience. So we’re going to be talking about a couple of different things I know a lot of our speaker members they struggle with, they’re always thinking about what is called the outreach campaigns, how we do those, the use of, of really kind of LinkedIn, as a way of generating leads and opportunities. And over, we get a chance we could talk about like when you’re actually on the stage, what kind of funnel should be sending people into and kind of campaigns. So before we kind of get into the the kind of cold outreach, email campaigns, just tell us a little bit what was your journey into this whole world of online marketing?
Email outreach campaigns for speakers.
Will Wang
Yeah, it was quite an interesting journey. So I come from a corporate IT background, I was a massive introvert, huge geek, huge nerd, and, you know, go into marketing and speaking and doing other stuff that I do, it seems so far out of reach. But I was in it for about 10 years, and every single day is like the same grind, the same, you know, fighting for public transport, everyone’s looking happy, getting to my desk and cubicle and just being part of the cog. And you know, you’re just a cog in the wheel. And I was just really, really happy. So my father in law actually had a stone measuring business where he built kitchen benchtops. And he’s very tech averse, yeah, kind of the old school, like good websites and things like that. And in the spare time that I had, while I was working, I was building websites for other people that I had met on gaming firms. And so my writing because I had to write the content for the website started to get quite good. My father in law, actually put it in my head, hey, you’re building websites for people you’re writing for people do this for me. And that was kind of my first dipping my toe into the water of this whole marketing thing. building websites, tech. And really, you know, I started getting fascinated by if I can write some words and put it on a page getting in front of someone, people can take action, and they can do things that if I do it the right way, saving the right way they can do the actions I’d like him to do. And I just got really fascinated and really geeked out with all of this kind of stuff. So a bit of a journey from deciding to leave to leaving and then building the agency up to where it is now. And you know, plenty of ups and downs as I’m sure all the speakers listen to this, as you know, they’ve gone for as well. And it’s been five years now I’ve kept for five years in terms of leaving corporate and in running my own mind company.
James Taylor
Fantastic. And one of the things I like about you is there’s lots of people out there talking about email marketing campaigns, there’s lots of people that talk about even some links, like LinkedIn and those kind of campaigns, but often they’ll they’re coming at it from a b2c perspective. Now, a lot of your clients are more from the b2b side, which I think will resonate with a lot of our audience here. Who are their customers? Are those large companies, big associations, for example. So talk to us about this idea of, of cold email campaigns. And why you see this, there’s value in this from from a from a b2b perspective.
Will Wang
Yeah. So, you know, honestly, it was something that I started doing for myself very early on, just because what I was going for insurance to start my company I listened to advice from a lot of different people tried a lot of different things like cold calling, and things like that. And I was an introvert, really thin skinned, really didn’t like rejection. And so cold calling just didn’t work for me. I was in the b2b market for myself. I was trying to sell Google ads and Facebook ads and you know, those kinds of services. And it just so happened that what I was doing for myself actually worked to bring customers in. So because I had this background in really a deep passion, I guess you’d call it for writing and figuring out psychology behind writing. My email started to get really, really good traction better than every other channel that I was using to try and promote my own business. And over time, my clients, it’s me, Look, these emails, these emails are really, really good. I don’t want this Facebook stuff because when more people The market, Facebook ads don’t necessarily work so well for us in this market. But I can see that if we can adapt some of the email stuff you’re doing for yourself, it will work really well with our clients. So it’s kind of like a very natural evolution, very natural process where I had a few clients come to me on board, try the email stuff for them wrote emails for them. And it just worked really, really well. And so from that point on, I just said, look, I think b2b, especially the chasing after bigger companies in bigger accounts, not always on Facebook, for example, they’re not always searching. But if you can, if you can get the right message in front of them in a very elegant and subtle way, you can get some really good cover in really good traction.
James Taylor
So take us through what I look at a typical campaign would look like from the stage of, I guess they’re almost at the prospecting, finding that lead that opportunity, bringing them into a campaign in some way. And then they can have sequences of things that maybe they’re going through and what you’re trying to get them to do at the end of that or not.
Will Wang
Sure. So maybe, let’s take the context of if I’m trying to get booked for for a speaking gig, what I do in terms of outreach, so there might be more relevant and make a little bit more sense. So first and foremost, I would think about relevance, right? relevance is such a key thing in marketing, in outreach, funnels, whatever you want to do. If your message is relevant, and your message is personalized, it’s always going to outperform things that aren’t right. That’s just the facts. So I will look at, you know, where have I spoken up before? What do I speak about? Who am my audience, or what audience would like to hear what I have to say? What industries are working, what associations are running events, and I would actually note all of this down inside of a spreadsheet, so that when I do reach out to a select few people that are a select few organizations, I can reference the fact that I’ve done research into them and their events. And I know for a fact that their audience, or they’ve had other speakers like me on it before, so I know that there’s a relevant factor in there as well. So first and foremost, the number one thing is do your research. If you want people to come through and give you their time and respond to you, and have you on their stage, why wouldn’t you do it, put a little bit more effort in and understand more about them and what they’re looking for first. And that’ll get you so far above everyone else who’s just trying to spam them and pitch them. So number one thing is do your research personalized metrics relevant? Number two is I would look at how am I going to find these people? So who is it within these organizations I have to speak to? Is it the marketing manager? Have they got specific events person that they that they have? Do they have a speaker coordinator? Who is it within these associations or within these organizations? Do I need to speak to who can either be the person I need to speak to to get me up on stage, or at least know who the exact person is that has to pull me up on stage. So that’s the second bit knowing who they are. And there’s your we’ve got an inbuilt in house system and process we follow to find the contact details of these people. But there’s a lot of you know, ways to do that out there as well. So I like to find the personal work email address of the person we’re speaking to. So for example, if I wanted to get in touch with someone I find jane@acme.com Bob comm I wouldn’t go for info or contact yet because it’s just not going to get for the right person. After that’s done, we’ve got the right contact details, only then do I look at my sequence of emails. Now typically, I would write five to eight emails, because people get busy, they don’t see an email, if it doesn’t get seen, it kind of drops off really quickly. And, you know, sometimes we just have to remind people that way here and we’re persistent. we’re serious about giving value to the, to the audience. So already seconds or five to eight emails, following three key principles when I’m writing the emails, or three key points that I’ve got to include. So I typically always include value in them. So what value can I provide to your organization and to your audience, I would also look at what social proof do I have? How can I prove to you that if you put me up on the stage in front of 10,000 people, I’m not just going to bomb out, right? How can I show you that I’ve done this before I’m experienced, I’m knowledgeable. I’m an expert, and that I’m well spoken. And the third one is how can I make this human? So how can I make you curious in what I have to say? or How can I use humor to stand out from everyone else? Now, that is always a little bit different as well. So for me, when I’m prospecting for marketing agency clients, I push the boundaries a lot with humor. I’ve heard bad jokes and a cheesy jokes. I’ve got pictures of you know, I forget Oh, Russell Crowe from from from from the gladiator the captions I you know, entertained. You know, I just for random stuff out there because it gets the attention of my market. You’re, the association associations you’re going after may or may not be that they may not may or may not be receptive to that kind of humor, but it’s really up to you. So I yeah,
James Taylor
you’d be surprised at Because when the campaigns that we’ve run will, I’ll keep it pretty straight for the first few. And then like email for motion mode going week for let’s say, I start to put a little bit more personality in. And it’s always trade edges, right? You’re trending that fine line, you want to show your personality and what you’re doing. You want to use humor? I think I did. One of them was like, Scottish country dancing, or something like bizarre. It was like, kind of really, what? And what was fascinating was watching those emails, you see people open the first one, and most people go, Oh, yeah, I need to respond to that. Nothing. Second, third. And then that fourth one, which is it kind of almost a little bit unrelated. It just kind of a pattern interrupt is the one that is Oh, I was meaning to contact you. I thought it was really. So this is quite nice. just changing up the set when you having a big meal sometimes. And it’s quite nice to have like some sorbet as most just something to break up the give you a different taste.
Will Wang
Yeah, that’s completely right. And it’s really funny, one of the biggest deals that I’ve that I’ve had kind of through Vikon emails, it came on the eighth email of a sequence going out to a financial services company. And the subject line was like a crazy x. And I just made fun of myself for pestering, pestering, that’s the wrong word to use. But just for being persistent and forgetting, you know, back into his inbox, and he has loved it. And he says, hey, look, I haven’t seen any of the first seven emails, but absolutely love this email come in, because I want to talk to you and your team, obviously, you’re very creative. Come on in, and let’s have conversation. And that led to a massive deal for us. So be persistent, change it up, don’t be one of those people that just copies and paste the same email eight or nine times, that’s really annoying. If you do it with tact, if you deal with elegance, if you come at come at this from different angles, you’ll find something that works and the market respond in kind as well.
James Taylor
And when in those emails, the I guess the call to action? Are you going? Because it’s more of a business context? Are you going straight to asking? You know, you know, let’s set up time for a call discovery call, I have a link to your calendly type of thing? Or are you trying to find like a middle step like a softer thing? Hey, there’s this case study, or there’s this thing I think can be really useful for you.
Will Wang
It really depends on the context, right? So if I was going out there to generate leads for a service or product, I would start with asking for a phone call, and then gradually softened it up. So hey, maybe you’re not ready for a phone call. You don’t know who I am? Can I send you a case study of what we’ve done with another client? That’ll give you some more context? In the context of getting speaking gigs? There’s a few different angles that you could try. So one, definitely Why don’t we jump on a call? Let me give you some speaking credentials. Another one might just be something like, can I send you my highlight reel or speaker reel? I know that you haven’t seen my stuff before, let me at least give you the confidence that I’ve spoken on stages like yours. It’s a two minute speaker reel. Is it okay? If I sent that to you, and I got your feedback on it, and then follow up and actually ask for the feedback, because that’s the next step of the process. Right? It’s not just, we’re gonna get the first Yes. And that’s it is there’s a process behind the process.
James Taylor
So totally, like in terms of how when you’re working with clients, I guess the automation piece, or some of the things are very personalized, maybe initial outreach, but I know it’s certainly we in when some of our campaigns, the initial essentially call to action is like, we just asked him to do one very simple thing, which go and see the video here, of in this case, the speaker, and then that triggers a whole bunch of other automations of other sequences, depending on if you do that. And if you don’t do that, then it just kind of keeps going along certain paths as well. So how do you what do you do you staying quite poor? You know, are you tracking kind of individuals, all these personalized kind of broadcast style emails? Or do you have a lot of kind of automation kind of going on taking people down, like, choose your own adventure level,
Will Wang
we used to do more in terms of automation. But now I’m finding personalization is a real cut through. So I’m going to actually step back from automating as much as we can, because people kind of see through it, and they get used to it. I’ve got a fairly large team that I’ve built on offshore and trained them all up, you know, reading all the templates, and they actually do active research and monitor the responses and reply. So we’ve got a team that kind of does all of that for our clients. automations are okay, but you can never replicate the human to human element on the research, the humor, the personality, and it’s just, it’s just so hard to do, as well as a human can do. Because we are more of a premium service where, you know, most of our clients come to us because their clients are worth quite a bit or their speaking gigs worth quite a bit. We’re more premium so we can afford to do something like that. And I’ve seen better results from personalization from personal online rather than automating
James Taylor
so less in terms of your team then are they the tracking these, these leads, let’s say that they find an opportunity for you One of your clients, they’re kind of doing the research. Yes, this is getting Yep. This is the do the personalized first one, how are they ensuring that they the second, the third, the fourth, emails are kind of going out and then kind of testing what’s working?
Will Wang
Yeah, so we’ve got software that helps us do all of that. So we split test sequences, headlines, a lot of different things. So we’ve got software specifically just for doing cold outreach with and that allows us to do a lot of testing, and also allows us to monitor a lot of the automations in the background as well. So I would say that we, you know, we’re not anti automation, I like automation, to the point where it makes sense. So we use a lot of software to do the first bit to keep sending emails. As soon as someone replies, they drop off the automation guy, and another automation kicks in that tags them and reminds my team, hey, we said we’ve got to reply three or four days ago, can you please check it make sure that we’re on track of this lead?
James Taylor
So are you almost adding like personalization at the start the personalization at the end? And using some of the automation for the middle part?
Will Wang
Exactly.
James Taylor
Got it. Okay, so that. So that’s fast. And you mentioned the A B testing piece. So I want to ask, like, when your clients come to you for the first time, maybe they’re speaking, maybe they’re a coach or a consultant, and this saying, well, I need you to, we’ve got some chord campaigns going just now outreach campaigns, but they’re not really converting what the what are the kind of your go to is the first thing you think about testing?
A/B testing of sales funnels
Will Wang
Yeah, so first thing is always is always the audience, like, do you understand the nuances of your audience enough. And you know, people taking the time to copy and get into, you know, all this copy wizardry. But honestly, if you don’t have a good USP, that comes across really strongly in emails, if you’re not giving the value, if you’re not getting the social proof, or humor or the curiosity, you know, that stuff is important. But if you’re not focusing on the right target market, if you don’t know what they’re thinking, or what their pains and frustrations are, you’re not going to get anywhere, no matter how good your copywriting is. Okay, so I always start at the very top, which is Who am I targeting? What am I saying? Is this right market? If it is, then I start looking at Well, is it my technology in my emails, getting through to the inboxes? Okay, and then if it is, okay, now, let’s look at what are we saying? Are we getting the right response? Are we getting good open rates? So there’s a bit of a process that we kind of step through?
James Taylor
Now I know, our European listeners or Canadian listeners, both please, which have quite strong GDPR regulations, email regulations, what’s what’s the best way of doing this to make sure that we, you know, we stay not only within the law of what we have to do I know different countries have different, but also there’s an integrity to it. And you can sleep well at night, I guess, one of the things that you would say,
B2B lead generation using LinkedIn
Will Wang
Yep. So obviously check with your lawyers in individual areas, cold email, and outreach lawyers very different. In Canada. In Germany, you’re absolutely not allowed to do this, by the way. So not on cold emails. We use LinkedIn quite heavily within those countries. In Australia, the UK, and also the US. Absolutely allowed to even with GDPR coming through cold emails, haven’t you actually love to do cold emails?
James Taylor
Yeah, best. Because this is business because you’re dealing mostly with a business audience as opposed to individuals.
Will Wang
Exactly do not do BTC emails. BTC cold emails are banned in Australia. I don’t know if it’s been the US, but definitely Australia, and also the UK as well. We primarily focus on on b2b stuff. So that’s completely, that’s
James Taylor
great. Because there’s an opportunity, I mean, how long that window is going to last for we don’t know. But that just now there’s still this opportunity there.
Will Wang
But I think at the same time, if you marry that against you know, best, I call it best practice, but it’s just human practice. If you’re not spamming, if you make it relevant, if you personalize, if you’re given an easy way to tell, you know, if it’s not relevant, those are the things that you can implement. So even if in future, you know, something changes, or people are less receptive. If you’re in the millions and millions of emails that we’ve sent for clients, we’ve never had someone turn around and go, I’m going to I’m going to W in because the emails are written in such a way where there’s just no need for it, we ask them for permission, we ask them, is this relevant? Do you want me to come back to your inbox Should I leave, we just make it super easy if it’s not relevant. So there’s the law side of it. But there’s just been, you know, a decent person, having taken the time to really understand your audience, giving them value in a cold email. And I think if you can give them value, think about things from their perspective, you’re always going to have people who react well to your emails,
James Taylor
I guess it’s not just about law, your backgrounds in the tech side as well. So with that b2b audience, you’re also going to get through a lot of filters, corporate filters on email systems. So being quite careful about what you use and the kind of links that you’re using as well.
Will Wang
Yeah, so just just minimizing a lot of pictures minimizing a lot of links, links, integers tend to get flagged by this corporate filters. So we tend to just make it look like it’s an email from a friend and strip out all of the stuff that you don’t need. You don’t need all the links to your social media profile. You don’t need, you know, all the links back to your website. It should be should be straight, straightforward. So
James Taylor
so that’s interesting. So rather than, let’s say, the call to action being, click here to download this case study, you’re maybe just saying, hey, if you want the case study, just email me back.
Will Wang
Exactly.
James Taylor
Got it, then I deals with all the filters. And that’s great. That’s really cool. Now, the other thing you’ll kind of notice, well is like you and your team, building these amazing cold outreach campaigns, is LinkedIn marketing, which is a is a beast to its own. And we’ve probably all had those emails, or those messages coming in as they do a connection with you, and then they start spamming the hell out of you after a while is with that kind of really horrible thing. But I’ve also seen people that do really well. And they it’s quite a nice kind of good connection. And they’re generally being useful, and they’re helpful, and you build a relationship with them as well. So what’s working for you and your clients just now when it comes to that, I guess that cold outreach via LinkedIn
Will Wang
shows these two parts of it. One is taking a longer-term view. So now we’ve caught emails, it’s like, I’ve got several opportunities to get you to reply because I can, I can send you five to eight cold emails and different angles and to test different things. And it’s generally Okay, LinkedIn, you only get one shot. So my main goal is to use LinkedIn the way it’s intended and as to build your network and meet interesting people. Maybe that you want to sit down have coffee with one of my pet peeves is people who, who connect with you. And the next thing, you know, it’s like a 10, page sales pitch, like, that’s nice. Yeah, my whole thing is, let’s look at it from a long term nurture perspective. I’m happy for my LinkedIn, you know, people that I talk to, and I don’t call them leads, by the way, I call them connections and conversations, I’m happy to not have a conversation with everyone I connect to, for three to six months, or a year, however long it takes, because I’m still seeing their content, they’re still seeing my content, you know, I can acknowledge that they’re doing for example, if I connect with someone, I might look at what they posted or what they’ve liked. And I send them a message saying, hey, just wanted to say your last blog post was actually awesome. Not trying to pitch you anything, just wanted to give you a big shout out, that was awesome, great job, keep it up. And so all of a sudden, it’s like, Whoa, what’s this guy? What’s he doing? Why is he saying I’ve done good stuff. He’s not trying to pitch anything. And it’s so different. Yeah, so, so much more authentic, right. And then what I do is I like to wait for a trigger moment or reason to actually reach out to people. So if I’ve connected with someone for a while, and we create, say, a brand new lead magnet, which I think is going to be really handy for them. It might take me a few months, but then I might reach out and say, Hey, thank you, thank you for a few months. I’ve just my team, and I’ve just created this new lead magnet that helps you get you know, that helps you build a funnel that it’s going to bring more speed opportunities to you. I just from your profile, it looks like it’s kind of relevant. Would you like me to send it to you free of charge, of course, all at once to feedback. And so now you’ve got a long term relationship in which you might have emailed, you know, message them twice, or three times saying, hey, great job, they’ve kind of seen your name a few times, you’re offering them value upfront, you’re not trying to pitch them anything. And the only return or exchange you’re asking for is their feedback. So that becomes a really valuable relationship for them to have. And they’re much more open to having an actual conversation with you. Because when they do give you the feedback, you can always turn around and ask thanks for the feedback. You said this was a challenge for you, right? Look, is it worth having a conversation with you about this specifically? If not, that’s cool. Let me know if it is awesome. We can set up a time.
James Taylor
And you’re in your own world with your own connections, are you being quite systematic in terms of everyday I want to go and make X number of connections, or you’re doing something different? Because I know there’s there’s certain limits that you can make in terms of connections, it needs to feel natural, in terms of the connections you’re making as well.
Will Wang
Yeah, so I’ll go a little bit deeper into the marketing that we do. So yes, you know, be very careful to how many people you’re connecting with. I say, as a rule of thumb, no, no more than 20 connections a day. I do even less than that now. So every day, I’ll look at you know, I look at LinkedIn Sales Navigator, and I go, who are five people I will love to sit down and have a coffee with regardless of if we’re doing work or not. And I’ll send them a personalized conditional message to every you know, to five people. On the flip side of that I’ve got, I’ve got advertising campaigns on LinkedIn, on Facebook, and on advertising networks, which drives inbound traffic to us. And as part of the email sequence, I have it running on the back of that I asked him to connect to me on LinkedIn. So I’ve got both inbound working for advertising and outbound focus on five key people every single day.
James Taylor
Got it. And the final thing I just want to speak to you about is you go and speak on stages and when you’re talking about your your business and services that you offer, I know we have a lot of speakers that listen to this show as well who they’re they’re more kind of sell from the stage or Chronicle platform speakers. So they’re not necessarily getting paid to go and speak on stage but they have a concern. Something or a coaching or some other membership or something that they’re selling on the back of going to speak on stage, I know that some of them kind of struggle with like, what the right offer what the right type of funnel is, for an event like that when you have a very high, you know, a experiential type of thing going on. And then how you bring people into that, what can sometimes feel like a bit more of an automated place? So what do you find when you go and speaking on stage? What do you find works for you in terms of getting people into your world so they can further Connect, and you can, you know, further add value to their, their lives in their businesses?
Will Wang
Yeah, so for me, personally, I like to connect with and have conversations with people. So my offer is always, if you want to find out more, if I can help you, here’s my email, send me an email, let’s have a conversation on either an email or on Facebook Messenger or whatever platform it is, tell me about you. That’s always my go to. I know, I’ve got friends who are fantastic speakers who so really, really well on stage. That’s a think about your own personality and what you kind of like, that’s not really me, I’m very in terms of sales on very positional selling. So in terms of that, I know my value in the market, I’m looking to find people I can really genuinely help. I don’t like to go out there and make a really hot pitch, right? I’m very, if you’re the right person, you will find me come through and we’ll have a really good conversation where I’m going to be consultative and help you out. So that doesn’t lend itself as well to, hey, I’ve got a $2,000 product I’m discounting is normally $100,000. I’m counting it to 50,000. But you’re not gonna pay 50 grand like, not my style.
James Taylor
Yeah, back in the roads, just go to the back,
Will Wang
exactly. Get your credit card. I did nothing wrong.
James Taylor
And I, you know, well, we’re kind of laughing about it. Now, there are people that do it in a very good way. And it’s not like totally spammy and horrible. Like, you won’t have a shower after the people. And it’s a real skill that people are doing very well, it is they do it in a really kind of classy way. And it’s really nice, and it feels is good. It’s a good experience. But we’ve all probably been in those rooms as well, where it’s, and this
Will Wang
is like I’m absolutely teasing. You know, my friends who I speak about, they do it so elegantly, it’s really really nicely. And they give a lot of value as well. So I’m just teasing he taking the extreme example. But you know, but that being said, I have said on stage before, and the way that I saw on stages, I created a separate landing page just for the people at this event, I got the fields to say, hey, I’ve got if you want my slides, if you want these templates, if you want this download, head across this link here. And on the page itself, I’ve got a video thanking them for watching me, here’s how you can connect his email address, here’s all the downloads you’ve got. And if you want more information, give me your name and email and I’ll add you to my list. So that’s another way that you can go through and grow your email lists, nurture them for stop selling via email. And you can do that quite nicely too. So a couple of different options that you can play with.
James Taylor
We’re talking about call to action, now’s a perfect time, because we’re coming up to the end of the show as well. You mentioned there about best ways people that you like people to connect with you. So tell everyone that if someone’s listening, watching this just now and they then actually, I could really we our team could really use the help on doing some of this cold outreach or LinkedIn campaigns that we were talking about there. What’s the best way for them to connect with you? Sure. So
Will Wang
the best way is to send me an email to will@growthlabz.com and you know, I’ll be able to email my team or pick up the email, let me know a little bit better how we can help let me know a little bit about you. And if there’s any case studies or you know funnels that we can share with you, whatever it is, we’d love to help you just reach out an email probably be the best way.
James Taylor
Well, well, it’s a pleasure speaking I’m feeling very jealous because you’re getting to go surfing probably tomorrow in that beautiful Australian weather. So thank you so much for coming on the show. Please stay safe. So and thank you for giving so much value like you do every time I hear you on podcast. So thank you. Well.
Will Wang
Thank you for having me on Jane. It’s been so fun.
